Since 2008, Black Nail Cabaret have been weaving dark, gothic pop where seduction meets electronic experimentation. The Hungarian duo recently released Chrysanthemum (review), an album about death, fear and loss. After their performance in London (live report), we went along to discuss all this with singer Emese Arvai-Illes. How could we refuse a midnight chat about funerals and cinema?
We'd also like to thank Gary Levermore of Red Sand PR for his invaluable help in setting up this interview.
You released Woodland Memoirs last year. This album was very different from your previous ones, you worked with many people and it wasn't purely electronic. Do you think that being locked down during the pandemic was part of this need to work with your friends?
No, I actually had this idea for a long time, I think it goes back to before the pandemic. I saw this Gothic Meets Klassik thing that was happening with bands like VNV Nation and Covenant. I really liked the idea to put the music into a different genre so we were looking at that idea but I did'nt necessarily wanted to go towards an orchestra. We more attempted to explore the alternative routes which were available among our friends because we have plenty of amazingly talented musician friends. We just got a guitarist, a saxophone player and a drummer from different bands and we just start together, started to jam. Basically that's what happened. But the whole idea came from the Gothic Meets Klassik.
Does working on such side-projects help you to refocus on your music for next albums... Or on the contrary pushes you to experiment more and more?
I think it's simply just inspiring and it gives us a certain amount of safety to be with other musicians together, there are more connections on stage as well... Well, it was not really on stage to be honest because we did not really perform in front of an audience, but when you jam in a session, there is more connection with people and it's really inspiring. So it really dragged us out of our comfort zone because we mostly just work together, the two of us. It was different to connect with more people this time and get more people's ideas, which pushed us into different directions from our own ideas.
Is this something you're thinking of doing again?
Maybe. Maybe not really soon because we just did that and we are always on the look out for new things.
Chrysanthemum displays a deathbed portrait. Do you sometimes wonder how would be your funeral?
I actually have a strong idea about my own funeral and what I would want with my body, what I'd want people to do with my body. I'm trying to be as ecologically conscious as possible so I've been exploring ideas which are available in Hungary, but there are not many. My favorite is a Italian pod that is put under a tree. They plant you, in an embryo position, and basically your rotting body will give life. I find that idea very beautiful but it's not available in every country yet, especially not in Hungary, so what we can do is cremation but in a biodegradable urn. That is my plan. And to be planted under a tree. I think that's still a really nice idea. I also have certain ideas of the music I would love to hear at my funeral but it doesn't really matter because I'm not gonna hear it anyway! I have a favorite song from Tori Amos called Purple People and I just imagine it to be perfect kind of... I don't know why but it has a sad tone to it, and it's also calm and says "let it go". And also The Cure's Funeral Party!
You basically just made an album that talked a lot about accepting death to be able to enjoy life...
Yes, but I think it's also a metaphore of the fear we experience on a daily basis. Everything leads back to losing stuff. Death is losing, losing life but we are also afraid of losing many things : our belongings, our beloved ones, our status, our jobs, our career, and most importantly our body as well. I think I was mainly exploring fear with this album. With the previous album as well but this is sort of a continuation and digging deeper, maybe like lying into a deathbed and observing. What if the worst thing you can imagine really happens to you? How would you feel? Sometimes it gives like a calming effect that, well, it doesn't really matter.
Is this the kind of topic you could have dealt with when you were younger like ten years ago for exemple?
I've been fascinated by this topic for a long time but ten years ago I was exploring it in a different way. I had much more going on in my mind at this time... Things have calmed down now so it's easier to see more clearly as years go by than when you're in middle of your youth and everything is happening so fast and you're just trying to keep up. I think that it's probably getting better and better each year... until death actually happens!
As an artist, where can you go after such a strong topic as death?
Wherever life takes me. For whatever is coming next there is always a room for evolvement and improvement. We have always something on our minds that we are fighting with, so I'm not sure what the next fight will be but I'm sure that there will be one!
You often have impressive outfits on stage. Do you work on their designs yourself?
Mostly yes, or if I don't I usually choose the people I work with or who I purchase or order from. I usually have an image in my head of what I want to accomplish and sometimes I do make compromises to accomodate other artists visions as well, like the fashion designers or headdress makers, or whatever... Or it may happen the other way around : I see something inspiring and I just think "wow, I could imagine a whole costume around this head piece!". So I buy it, design the rest of the stuff, and try to gather it together to have the whole outfit.
And what's the idea behind those outfits? Are you trying to give life to caracters?
Yes it's definitely the whole metamorphosis, and I love fashion, I love costumes, and I love different characters. I come from a theater group and I really loved getting into an other character and being absorbed in it. I loved that and I tried to bring that in Black Nail Cabaret from the very beginning. I think that's what we were doing with Sophie, the previous band member. It cleared down a little bit ever since Krisztian is in the band because he's not the dress up type! He prefers more to be in the background and to be responsible for the good sound and music and I am the one who's burning off the stage in front so I can be free with whatever I do. I think also all those characters are amplified versions of me. They're all a part of me in a way and I just let them out on stage because I can't really do that in my everyday life!
The mask you had for the release show of Chrysanthemum was amazing and had a kind of Clive Barker vibe!
It was something that I saw from an Berlin-living artist, Gamma Sky (formerly known as Lego Sky) on Instagram. This is how I got to know him. I saw that and i said "oh my god I see myself in it!", with this red catsuit and differents things. So I contacted him and I'm so happy that I'v actually been able to purchase that mask from him, I'm very proud of it. I have two masks from him but the other one I haven't used it yet. They have been in my cupboard for six months! I purchased them a long time ago but I'm just waiting for the right moment. Every show has a different character depending on the venue and the people... I always have a setlist in mind and also I know what I'm going to wear and approximately who I'm going to be. So there is always an image and I always try to play around it. I know that I'll be wearing the other mask somewhere very soon, but I knew I wouldn't be bringing it with me to the UK.
Do you already have in mind the visual aspect of you live shows when you're writing new songs?
No, it comes afterwards. It's attached to live shows more than the songs themselves. Although I'm quite visual so when I am working on a song sometimes the visual aspect like the music videos or at least the visuals that goes on the background on concerts may come straight away, but not the outfits. That comes later.
I know that you take visual inspiration from a lot of places and some of your music videos are really cinematographic. What kind of movies do you like? Who are your favourite directors?
I don't necessarily have favorite directors but I do have movies that I love and that I can watch as many times as I can. It's not about the story, it's about the mood they're putting you in. One of them is Lost in Translation, it creates such a special mood every time I watch it and I crave that mood... And also maybe Only Lovers left Alive. These are movies that are not about the story but more about the whole feeling. We just want to become part of that life. I don't watch or listen to too many new stuff because I always have periods when my gate is open and I'm like "ok, I can listen to or watch new stuff now", but then the gate closes and I have to re-watch and re-listen to the old stuff again and again to absorb it really. I just feel that today we're oversaturated with new things, so I'm trying to put a filter and let through only a few things at a time just to make sure I can fully appreciate them.
It was the last night of the tour, how does it feel when it ends? Is it a relief? Is it sad?
Now I am mostly relieved because of our pets at home. We have three cats and we're missing them so much. One of them is not doing very well. We took him to the vet before going on tour and he's stable but obviously he has a special attention now so we were worried and we're getting daily reports... We're looking forward to get back to our daily life to look after them. But I think that when this passes and we calm down after the whole tour, we gonna have fond memories and and we're going to miss it tremendously because it's been two crazy weeks with amazing people. We don't feel it now because we're still in it, but once we'll be back in our everyday life, we will for sure!
Do you still work in the UK? Was it special for you to tour here?
I do. I'm flying back and forth. I've always been working remotely and I do it mostly from home but I fly back sometimes. Touring here was special because we lived here for five years and we still miss a lot of things. What we don't miss is living here! Touring was like a great holiday in a way. We had the best of the UK like the food, without having to live in it! We were always reminded why we left, especially in London. But on our two days off we went to Stratford-upon-Avon which is Shakespeare birth town and we just thought with Krisztian that if we ever had to move back to the UK, this would be a town we would love to live in. It's a small town where there is life but also a proper Sunday vibe when the city is quiet. It's not 24/7 like London is. That's a bit too much for us.
This may sound like a annoying question to artists, but you've never played in France. Do you have any plans?
We've been to France but we never played there. We never had the chance. I think it's tough in every country. Promoters obviously have a hard time booking you because there's not gonna be enough ticket sales. I guess we still have to work on getting to more french people so we can be invited there. We would love to. We played with Saigon Blue Rain in Budapest and other festivals in Germany as well... But they're basically our only french contact! It's happening slowly. For example we are playing Spain for the first time this year. We have been receiving quite a lot of requests which led up to us being contacted by someone in Madrid who happened to arrange the festival we're playing at. I hope the same thing could happen in France.
